The ram and the goat...
Contrary to popular belief, this will be Daniels final vision. From this point forward, Daniel will have no other visions, just more interpretations of this very same one.
We are now in chapter 8, and about to read through Daniel’s vision of the ram and the goat, where all of the deceit of today’s teaching begins. Because if you can tamper with this vision, then all of the prophesies of Daniel will be scattered, and nothing will make sense. Which in turn, will lead to theories and speculation, and from speculation to conjecture, and then from conjecture to separation, and separation will lead to different denominations.
Which brings us into the world in which we live today.
In Daniel’s previous vision, the vision of the 4 beasts…we seen Daniel’s finger was pointed directly at the “little horn”, and with an incredible amount of accuracy, this “little horn” points directly at the Roman catholic church. In this vision we are about to read, Daniel once again speaks of a “little horn”…but the two are not the same.
And this is where almost all of today’s deceit begins.
In Daniel’s previous vision, the “little horn” came from the 10 horns of the 4th beast, and as we had seen, the Roman empire’s final state before its break up was into 10 parts, just like the symbolism of the 10 horns. Out of these 10 horns, a little one rose up into power and remains there until this very day.
In this vision we are about to read, another “little horn” appears…but this one doesn’t come from 10 horns, it rises out of 4. Which can only mean one thing. That the horn that rises out of 4, is different from the one that rises out of the 10.
But this, as you will soon see…is something they (the teachers) don’t want you to know.
This study will be dedicated to exposing who the “little horn” is, and that only. There is another study that follows on this very same vision that will cover the date that Daniel receives, the date of “2300 days”. As you will soon see, this will become a study unto itself.
The deceit goes very far in this vision, its tough to keep up with all of it at once.
What we will do is read through Daniel’s entire vision, and then begin to dissect it. Because for the first time, there is no need to speculate its meaning, for now we have an interpreter. For the first time we meet Gabriel, who from this point forward, will interpret everything for us.
We are now in chapter 8, and about to read through Daniel’s vision of the ram and the goat, where all of the deceit of today’s teaching begins. Because if you can tamper with this vision, then all of the prophesies of Daniel will be scattered, and nothing will make sense. Which in turn, will lead to theories and speculation, and from speculation to conjecture, and then from conjecture to separation, and separation will lead to different denominations.
Which brings us into the world in which we live today.
In Daniel’s previous vision, the vision of the 4 beasts…we seen Daniel’s finger was pointed directly at the “little horn”, and with an incredible amount of accuracy, this “little horn” points directly at the Roman catholic church. In this vision we are about to read, Daniel once again speaks of a “little horn”…but the two are not the same.
And this is where almost all of today’s deceit begins.
In Daniel’s previous vision, the “little horn” came from the 10 horns of the 4th beast, and as we had seen, the Roman empire’s final state before its break up was into 10 parts, just like the symbolism of the 10 horns. Out of these 10 horns, a little one rose up into power and remains there until this very day.
In this vision we are about to read, another “little horn” appears…but this one doesn’t come from 10 horns, it rises out of 4. Which can only mean one thing. That the horn that rises out of 4, is different from the one that rises out of the 10.
But this, as you will soon see…is something they (the teachers) don’t want you to know.
This study will be dedicated to exposing who the “little horn” is, and that only. There is another study that follows on this very same vision that will cover the date that Daniel receives, the date of “2300 days”. As you will soon see, this will become a study unto itself.
The deceit goes very far in this vision, its tough to keep up with all of it at once.
What we will do is read through Daniel’s entire vision, and then begin to dissect it. Because for the first time, there is no need to speculate its meaning, for now we have an interpreter. For the first time we meet Gabriel, who from this point forward, will interpret everything for us.
Daniel 8...
1In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
2And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
3Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
4I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
2And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
3Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
4I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
5 And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west,
...across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. 6 Then he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing beside the river, and ran at him with furious power. 7 And I saw him confronting the ram; he was moved with rage against him, attacked the ram, and broke his two horns. There was no power in the ram to withstand him, but he cast him down to the ground and trampled him; and there was no one that could deliver the ram from his hand.
8 Therefore the male goat grew very great; but when he became strong, the large horn was broken, and in place of it four notable ones came up toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered.
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, “How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?”
14 And he said to me, “For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.”
15 Then it happened, when I, Daniel, had seen the vision and was seeking the meaning, that suddenly there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of the Ulai, who called, and said, “Gabriel, make this man understand the vision.” 17 So he came near where I stood, and when he came I was afraid and fell on my face; but he said to me, “Understand, son of man, that the vision refers to the time of the end.”
18 Now, as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep with my face to the ground; but he touched me, and stood me upright. 19 And he said, “Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time the end shall be. 20 The ram which you saw, having the two horns--they are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king. 22 As for the broken horn and the four that stood up in its place, four kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, but not with its power.
23 “ And in the latter time of their kingdom,
When the transgressors have reached their fullness,
A king shall arise,
Having fierce features,
Who understands sinister schemes.
24 His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power;
He shall destroy fearfully,
And shall prosper and thrive;
He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.
25 “ Through his cunning
He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;
And he shall exalt himself in his heart.
He shall destroy many in their prosperity.
He shall even rise against the Prince of princes;
But he shall be broken without human means.
26 “ And the vision of the evenings and mornings
Which was told is true;
Therefore seal up the vision,
For it refers to many days in the future"
27 And I, Daniel, fainted and was sick for days; afterward I arose and went about the king’s business. I was astonished by the vision, but no one understood it.
I cant stress this enough, this is THE pivotal vision. This vision will bring together all of the visions we have just read into one big picture. The subject was the future kingdoms of earth in Nebuchadnezzar’s statue, and as you can see from this interpretation…we are still talking about the same damn thing. We have not changed the subject, but rather added more and more details to it until now…the final conclusion.
Gabriel makes it very easy to understand…
19. And he said, “Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time the end shall be. 20 The ram which you saw, having the two horns--they are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king. 22 As for the broken horn and the four that stood up in its place, four kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, but not with its power.
Just as Nebuchadnezzar’s statue, but this time we start with the Medo Persian empire. The ram represents the Medes and the Persians. It has one horn taller than the other to represent the stronger side, the Persian side of the empire. And if you can remember, the bear in the previous vision did the same thing. It said that one side of the bear was higher than the other. Then we come to the male goat, which Gabriel said was the Macedonian empire, or, the kingdom of Greece. The large horn of the goat was the first king, which was Alexander the great, the horn is broken, Alexander dies at the peak of his power, and 4 horns rise in its place, these are his 4 generals. This is the same exact symbolism we have seen in the previous vision. We had seen a leopard with 4 heads, over and over we have been speaking about the very same thing.
Let no one tell you anything different.
If you notice, Gabriel goes no further than the 4 generals of the Macedonian empire in this interpretation…
22 As for the broken horn and the four that stood up in its place, four kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, but not with its power.
23 “ And in the latter time of their kingdom,
When the transgressors have reached their fullness,
A king shall arise,
Having fierce features,
Who understands sinister schemes.
Gabriel say’s in verse 23, “and in the latter time of their kingdom”…who’s kingdom? Gabriel stops at Alexander’s generals and goes no further. He said in the later time of their kingdom, a king shall arise.
8 Therefore the male goat grew very great; but when he became strong, the large horn was broken, and in place of it four notable ones came up toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered.
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, “How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?”
14 And he said to me, “For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.”
15 Then it happened, when I, Daniel, had seen the vision and was seeking the meaning, that suddenly there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of the Ulai, who called, and said, “Gabriel, make this man understand the vision.” 17 So he came near where I stood, and when he came I was afraid and fell on my face; but he said to me, “Understand, son of man, that the vision refers to the time of the end.”
18 Now, as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep with my face to the ground; but he touched me, and stood me upright. 19 And he said, “Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time the end shall be. 20 The ram which you saw, having the two horns--they are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king. 22 As for the broken horn and the four that stood up in its place, four kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, but not with its power.
23 “ And in the latter time of their kingdom,
When the transgressors have reached their fullness,
A king shall arise,
Having fierce features,
Who understands sinister schemes.
24 His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power;
He shall destroy fearfully,
And shall prosper and thrive;
He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.
25 “ Through his cunning
He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;
And he shall exalt himself in his heart.
He shall destroy many in their prosperity.
He shall even rise against the Prince of princes;
But he shall be broken without human means.
26 “ And the vision of the evenings and mornings
Which was told is true;
Therefore seal up the vision,
For it refers to many days in the future"
27 And I, Daniel, fainted and was sick for days; afterward I arose and went about the king’s business. I was astonished by the vision, but no one understood it.
I cant stress this enough, this is THE pivotal vision. This vision will bring together all of the visions we have just read into one big picture. The subject was the future kingdoms of earth in Nebuchadnezzar’s statue, and as you can see from this interpretation…we are still talking about the same damn thing. We have not changed the subject, but rather added more and more details to it until now…the final conclusion.
Gabriel makes it very easy to understand…
19. And he said, “Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time the end shall be. 20 The ram which you saw, having the two horns--they are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king. 22 As for the broken horn and the four that stood up in its place, four kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, but not with its power.
Just as Nebuchadnezzar’s statue, but this time we start with the Medo Persian empire. The ram represents the Medes and the Persians. It has one horn taller than the other to represent the stronger side, the Persian side of the empire. And if you can remember, the bear in the previous vision did the same thing. It said that one side of the bear was higher than the other. Then we come to the male goat, which Gabriel said was the Macedonian empire, or, the kingdom of Greece. The large horn of the goat was the first king, which was Alexander the great, the horn is broken, Alexander dies at the peak of his power, and 4 horns rise in its place, these are his 4 generals. This is the same exact symbolism we have seen in the previous vision. We had seen a leopard with 4 heads, over and over we have been speaking about the very same thing.
Let no one tell you anything different.
If you notice, Gabriel goes no further than the 4 generals of the Macedonian empire in this interpretation…
22 As for the broken horn and the four that stood up in its place, four kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, but not with its power.
23 “ And in the latter time of their kingdom,
When the transgressors have reached their fullness,
A king shall arise,
Having fierce features,
Who understands sinister schemes.
Gabriel say’s in verse 23, “and in the latter time of their kingdom”…who’s kingdom? Gabriel stops at Alexander’s generals and goes no further. He said in the later time of their kingdom, a king shall arise.
So according to history, what happened to the kingdoms of Alexander’s 4 generals?
According to history, his 4 generals fought from 322 to 301 BC for the right to rule the Macedonian empire. Lysimachus and Cassander were eliminated as competition, only Ptolemy and Seleucus were left in the “latter” part of their kingdom.
Remember, we have to use the original subject to help us understand these visions. And in Nebuchadnezzar’s statue, the Macedonian empire was the symbol of the belly and the thighs. So after Alexander dies, and the belly is gone, the kingdom then becomes 2 parts, the two thighs. And these 2 thighs are Seleucus and Ptolemy.
Gabriel said in the “latter time” of these 2 kingdoms, a king shall arise having fierce features, who understands sinister schemes. Who is this king?
The only way we can determine which king it is, is by following the details we have been given by Gabriel. We’ll set aside the details of the vision for right now, and just analyze Gabriel’s interpretation. We’ll get back to Daniel’s vision in a moment…
So, Gabriel said this king…
1. Will come out of either the Seleucid empire, or the Ptolemaic kingdom.
2. Has fierce features and understand sinister schemes.
3. He shall be mighty but not by his own power.
4. He shall destroy fearfully
5. He shall prosper and thrive
6. He shall destroy the mighty and also the holy people
7. He shall be deceitful
8. He shall exalt himself
9. He shall destroy many in their prosperity
10. He shall rise against the prince of princes
11. He shall die not by human hands
Remember, we have to use the original subject to help us understand these visions. And in Nebuchadnezzar’s statue, the Macedonian empire was the symbol of the belly and the thighs. So after Alexander dies, and the belly is gone, the kingdom then becomes 2 parts, the two thighs. And these 2 thighs are Seleucus and Ptolemy.
Gabriel said in the “latter time” of these 2 kingdoms, a king shall arise having fierce features, who understands sinister schemes. Who is this king?
The only way we can determine which king it is, is by following the details we have been given by Gabriel. We’ll set aside the details of the vision for right now, and just analyze Gabriel’s interpretation. We’ll get back to Daniel’s vision in a moment…
So, Gabriel said this king…
1. Will come out of either the Seleucid empire, or the Ptolemaic kingdom.
2. Has fierce features and understand sinister schemes.
3. He shall be mighty but not by his own power.
4. He shall destroy fearfully
5. He shall prosper and thrive
6. He shall destroy the mighty and also the holy people
7. He shall be deceitful
8. He shall exalt himself
9. He shall destroy many in their prosperity
10. He shall rise against the prince of princes
11. He shall die not by human hands
So, who in history fulfills every single one of these qualities?
There was only one king that attacked the holy people in the history of that time, and that king is Antiochus Epiphanes, or Antiochus IV the Seleucid king.
All other kings, whether they be of the Ptolemaic kingdom, or the Seleucid empire can be ruled out because of that one simple fact. No other ruler during the times of these two empires, attacked the Jewish people, except Antiochus IV. So only he can fulfill this vision.
And he does…perfectly.
Antiochus IV ruled from 175-164BC and was in constant battle with the “mighty people” of Egypt, the Ptolemaic kingdom. He was about ready to run through the entire region with his armies and destroy the Ptolemaic kingdom when he receive an ultimatum from the emerging empire of Rome. He was told to cease his conquest of Egypt, or suffer the consequences of war with the Roman empire. And this decision had to be made immediately…
When the guardians of King Ptolemy VI of Egypt demanded the return of Coele-Syria in 170 BC, Antiochus launched a preemptive strike against Egypt, conquering all but Alexandria and capturing King Ptolemy. To avoid alarming Rome, Antiochus allowed Ptolemy VI to continue ruling as a Puppet-king. Upon Antiochus' withdrawal, the city of Alexandria chose a new King, one of Ptolemy's brothers, also named Ptolemy (VIII Euergetes). Instead of fighting a civil war, the Ptolemy brothers agreed to rule Egypt jointly
Wikipedia
In 168 BC Antiochus led a second attack on Egypt and also sent a fleet to capture Cyprus. Before reaching Alexandria, his path was blocked by a single, old Roman ambassador named Gaius Popillius Laenas, who delivered a message from the Roman Senate directing Antiochus to withdraw his armies from Egypt and Cyprus, or consider themselves in a state of war with the Roman Republic. Antiochus said he would discuss it with his council, whereupon the Roman envoy drew a line in the sand around him and said, "Before you cross this circle I want you to give me a reply for the Roman Senate" - implying that Rome would declare war if the King stepped out of the circle without committing to leave Egypt immediately. Weighing his options, Antiochus wisely decided to withdraw. Only then did Popillius agree to shake hands with him.
Wikipedia
As you can see, it was Antiochus IV that was the “puppet king” and not just Ptolemy VI. Antiochus did everything in his power not to alarm the Romans, who by this time were emerging as the new power in Macedonia. Antiochus knew his place, and made the right decision not to go to war with Rome, and the “puppet king” was allowed to continue his reign until his death. Antiochus IV died suddenly of disease in 164BC.
All other kings, whether they be of the Ptolemaic kingdom, or the Seleucid empire can be ruled out because of that one simple fact. No other ruler during the times of these two empires, attacked the Jewish people, except Antiochus IV. So only he can fulfill this vision.
And he does…perfectly.
Antiochus IV ruled from 175-164BC and was in constant battle with the “mighty people” of Egypt, the Ptolemaic kingdom. He was about ready to run through the entire region with his armies and destroy the Ptolemaic kingdom when he receive an ultimatum from the emerging empire of Rome. He was told to cease his conquest of Egypt, or suffer the consequences of war with the Roman empire. And this decision had to be made immediately…
When the guardians of King Ptolemy VI of Egypt demanded the return of Coele-Syria in 170 BC, Antiochus launched a preemptive strike against Egypt, conquering all but Alexandria and capturing King Ptolemy. To avoid alarming Rome, Antiochus allowed Ptolemy VI to continue ruling as a Puppet-king. Upon Antiochus' withdrawal, the city of Alexandria chose a new King, one of Ptolemy's brothers, also named Ptolemy (VIII Euergetes). Instead of fighting a civil war, the Ptolemy brothers agreed to rule Egypt jointly
Wikipedia
In 168 BC Antiochus led a second attack on Egypt and also sent a fleet to capture Cyprus. Before reaching Alexandria, his path was blocked by a single, old Roman ambassador named Gaius Popillius Laenas, who delivered a message from the Roman Senate directing Antiochus to withdraw his armies from Egypt and Cyprus, or consider themselves in a state of war with the Roman Republic. Antiochus said he would discuss it with his council, whereupon the Roman envoy drew a line in the sand around him and said, "Before you cross this circle I want you to give me a reply for the Roman Senate" - implying that Rome would declare war if the King stepped out of the circle without committing to leave Egypt immediately. Weighing his options, Antiochus wisely decided to withdraw. Only then did Popillius agree to shake hands with him.
Wikipedia
As you can see, it was Antiochus IV that was the “puppet king” and not just Ptolemy VI. Antiochus did everything in his power not to alarm the Romans, who by this time were emerging as the new power in Macedonia. Antiochus knew his place, and made the right decision not to go to war with Rome, and the “puppet king” was allowed to continue his reign until his death. Antiochus IV died suddenly of disease in 164BC.
So, did Antiochus IV fulfill every one of the details given by Gabriel?
Antiochus Epiphanes fulfilled every single one of the details of Daniels prophesy…it is so accurate in fact, that the scholars say that Daniel would have to have been written after Antiochus IV had lived, because there is no way a prophet could be this accurate. But thanks to the dead sea scrolls and carbon dating, we now know that this is not true.
The Dead Sea Scrolls have lifted their voice in this controversy. Due to the amount of Daniel fragments found in various caves near Qumran, it appears that this prophetic book was one of the most treasured by that community. Perhaps the popularity of Daniel was due to the fact that the people of Qumran lived during the anxious period in which many of these prophecies actually were being fulfilled. For whatever reason, Daniel was peculiarly safeguarded to the extent that we have at our disposal parts of all chapters of Daniel, except chapters 9 and 12. However, one manuscript (4QDanc; 4 = Cave 4; Q = Qumran; Danc = one of the Daniel fragments arbitrarily designated “c” for clarification), published in November 1989, has been dated to the late second century B.C. (see Hasel, 1992, 5[2]:47). Two other major documents (4QDanb, 4QDana) have been published since 1987, and contribute to scholarly analysis of Daniel. These recently released fragments have direct bearing on the integrity and authenticity of the book of Daniel.
The Dead Sea Scrolls and Biblical Integrity
by Garry K. Brantley, M.A., M.Div.
In the next study, we will go through Daniels vision of the Ram and the Goat again, but this time we will focus all attention on the things Daniel had seen, and the date he had received of 2300 days.
Almost all interpretations of this vision say that this date is prophetical, and Daniel does not mean days, but rather 2300 years. Of which you will soon see in the next study, that this no more than a pile of steaming crap.
The Dead Sea Scrolls have lifted their voice in this controversy. Due to the amount of Daniel fragments found in various caves near Qumran, it appears that this prophetic book was one of the most treasured by that community. Perhaps the popularity of Daniel was due to the fact that the people of Qumran lived during the anxious period in which many of these prophecies actually were being fulfilled. For whatever reason, Daniel was peculiarly safeguarded to the extent that we have at our disposal parts of all chapters of Daniel, except chapters 9 and 12. However, one manuscript (4QDanc; 4 = Cave 4; Q = Qumran; Danc = one of the Daniel fragments arbitrarily designated “c” for clarification), published in November 1989, has been dated to the late second century B.C. (see Hasel, 1992, 5[2]:47). Two other major documents (4QDanb, 4QDana) have been published since 1987, and contribute to scholarly analysis of Daniel. These recently released fragments have direct bearing on the integrity and authenticity of the book of Daniel.
The Dead Sea Scrolls and Biblical Integrity
by Garry K. Brantley, M.A., M.Div.
In the next study, we will go through Daniels vision of the Ram and the Goat again, but this time we will focus all attention on the things Daniel had seen, and the date he had received of 2300 days.
Almost all interpretations of this vision say that this date is prophetical, and Daniel does not mean days, but rather 2300 years. Of which you will soon see in the next study, that this no more than a pile of steaming crap.